KAYTE YOUNG:  From WFIU in Bloomington, Indiana this is Earth Eats, and I'm your host Kayte Young. Have you ever had a hunch about something, tested it, and then been shocked by the results? That's what happened to pharmaceutical microbiologist and public health scholar, Funmi Ayeni. She took a traditional Nigerian home remedy and applied the rigors of scientific research to test its efficacy. The results were nothing short of jaw-dropping. Stay tuned for the whole story coming right up on Earth Eats.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Thanks for listening to Earth Eats, I'm Kayte Young. My guest today is Funmi Ayeni.

FUNMI AYENI:  My full name is Funmilola Ayeni, but I'll always go by Funmi.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Funmi Ayeni is Assistant Professor in the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health in the Indiana University School of Public Health.

FUNMI AYENI:  Currently I work on antibiotic resistance. Microorganisms that are resistant to the current treatment of antibiotics, especially bacteria infection. So, firstly I try to look at the prevalence of those microorganisms in the environment, everywhere. Then the second thing I do, is human gut microbiome. The combination of microorganisms that I residing in the gut, in the mouth, and on the skin. I look at them generally and then I relate this to therapeutic food. So, I look at food that are just beyond nutrition that could be used as medicine. So, those are the three things that I do.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Looking at the environment and then also looking at the human body, and you said the skin, the mouth, the gut. So, essentially, where these microorganisms reside, [LAUGHS] and maybe the effects that they have on human health.

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes. As a human being we are composed of almost the same number, like 50:50 human cell microbial cell. Some actually claim that we are more microbes than human. [LAUGHS] So, we have so much microorganisms within us, and any little change in those microorganisms, anything that affect the microorganisms, affect human. Think about anything-- depression, anxiety, traveling, changing of diet, any form of sickness-- that's affecting the human, it's also affecting the microbes that are present in the body. So, I tend to look at these relationships between the microbes and the human. Some work that I've done previously I look at the effect of different lifestyles. Urban lifestyle, rural lifestyle, the food we eat and how it affects the microorganisms that are present within us. Also those within international traveling. That is one of my favorites, [LAUGHS] because I'm an immigrant. So, I came here from Nigeria, and when I came here I just discovered so many new allergies that I have never had before. And it's just because the microorganisms within me, they changed and then I started to see symptoms. So, I tend to look at the effect of those things on the human microbes generally. And then, the food we eat beyond nutrient.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes, and so in that example you just gave of moving here from Nigeria, so it's the environment that you're in is different, and also the food you're eating is different?

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And then maybe the stress of being in a new environment, where it's less familiar?

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes. Actually, I would say it's the environment. My food didn't drastically changed. I'm still eating more or less what I eat in Nigeria. Of course maybe the preparation is different, the water that is used for the preparation is different of course, but my food is more or less constant. But the environment is totally different. And the environment comes with it's own microorganisms, which is different from the microorganisms in Nigeria.

KAYTE YOUNG:  I'd like to hear a little bit about your background and how some of your early influences, and kind of what led you into doing this kind of work.

FUNMI AYENI:  My background has a big influence on what I do, and that is what I always say. My research is basically influenced by where I come from. So, let's take it one by one. The first thing I say I do is antibiotic resistance. I come from an environment where there is a gross misuse of antibiotics. In the western world if you want to take antibiotic, you get a prescription from the doctor. Where I come from people have a headache and they will prescribe themselves something, you just walk to the pharmacist and you buy it directly. So there's just this extreme misuse of antibiotics. And it's not that there's no regulation, there are laws. The laws of the country is just like United States, it should only be the doctor that should prescribe them. But nobody follows the law, and there's no enforcement, so the antibiotics are everywhere. And then what is the result? The result is extreme antibiotics resistance bacteria in the environment.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Funmi says that the problem of antibiotic resistance bacteria is even more worrisome because in Nigeria infectious disease is still the leading cause of death.

FUNMI AYENI:  That is in contrast to the western world. Here, maybe it's non-infectious diseases that are the major causes of death. Maybe cardiovascular disease, cancer, stroke, those are the major causes of death here, but not in my country. In my country it's still infectious disease, something caused by bacteria, by something viral. That is what is killing most people. So now we have an environment that the major cause of death is infectious disease, that you have treat with antibiotics, that's the first problem. Then the second problem, the antibiotics are really not effective again because of the overwhelming number of antibiotics resistance bacteria. So, you are sick and the antibiotics that you're supposed to take is [UNSURE OF WORD]. But most of the bacteria that is causing the illness is already resistant to [UNSURE OF WORD].

FUNMI AYENI:  And that is why we have a high number of infectious diseases, because people are sick and the antibiotics are not even working for them because of the resistance that we have. My first degree is in microbiology, my second is pharmaceutical microbiology. I did my masters in [UNSURE OF WORD] Pharmacy. And then my PhD degree is also pharmaceutical microbiology. And I become interested because looking at this situation, my background and the way we abuse antibiotics and everything. So to have a real sense of the solvents of antibiotic resistant bacteria in the environment. I look at food, I look at the environment. I look at the farm, I look at human. So, I isolate bacteria from different environments and I try to see how resistance differs to antibiotics, and it's overwhelming. Now, when I've established that the bacteria in our environment are very resistant, then my second research question will always be, if antibiotics is no longer working in this environment, what else can we use besides antibiotics for treatment of infectious disease which is so widespread in Nigeria, Africa, where I come from. So the second research would be, I would get the antibiotics resistance and we establish that antibiotics is not effectively, then I look for what could be effective, and that's what led me to therapeutic food and probiotics.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Therapeutic foods and probiotics? So, the medicine that is available isn't working, and so what else is possible, and what does you research look like, and how do you do this kind of research? Are you out in the field, are you working with populations, are you working in a lab, are you analyzing data, are you doing all of those things?

FUNMI AYENI:  I collect bacteria from different places, from the environment, from the human, then I bring them to the lab, test the antibiotics resistance. And then I now look for different foods like kosher food, traditional food that have some properties, bioactive components in them that is able to kill or stop the growths of those bacteria. Then we put all this together and we analyze it. So, yes, I'm in the field, in the lab [LAUGHS] I do all those them together.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And so, what kind of traditional foods are you talking about that you might study? Would you look at fermented foods in people's culture, that kind of thing?

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes, so when I work therapeutic food, my approach is like anthropologist. People do this all of the world, people use different things. Some people work on nuts, some people work on vegetables. I think everybody knows that fruit and vegetables are very good for us. But for me, I look at the traditional food, fermented food, food made from cereal. Why? Western medicine has done a lot of good. Like a lot of great things. People now can live with different chronic disease because there is medicine. And then we actually expect that maybe there will be no more sickness in the world, right, [LAUGHS] because of all of the advances.

 It's just less than 200 years ago that people, if you are sick, the doctor would be bleeding you. Like, they would cut the person. They would be removing the blood and then they killed the person from bleeding. But we've come a long way. However, there is still a lot of chronic disease all around us. People in the Western World can manage the chronic diseases. They may not die very fast. But people live with a lot of chronic diseases. So, before Western medicine what did people do? That's the anthropology part of my work. In different cultures what do people do and then, does it work?

KAYTE YOUNG:  Funmi wanted to know if there are traditional therapeutic practices that are actually effective. She wanted to find out if it was just the placebo effect. Do these practices work just because people believe that they will or could she find scientific evidence that some of these cultural "food as medicine" traditions are helpful in preventing and treating disease? She decided to started her research in her own culture. After a short break, Funmi will tell us the story of how she may have stumbled upon a nearly miraculous treatment for a widespread disease in her home country of Nigeria. Stay with us.

KAYTE YOUNG:  This Earth Eats, I'm your host Kayte Young, and we're back with Funmi Ayeni, Professor in Environmental and Occupational Health at the School of Public Health at Indiana University. She studies antibiotic resistance, environmental health and probiotics. In her own country of Nigeria antibiotics are overused and have become ineffective. In the face of this reality, Funmi wanted to know if there were any traditional therapeutic food practices that could be scientifically proven to be effective against disease, beyond a placebo effect. She decided to start in her own culture.

FUNMI AYENI:  Malaria is endemic in Nigeria. It is a normal thing. Everybody is used Malaria. It's an endemic thing. So, we live with malaria. [LAUGHS] Shall I say "It's our friend?" We get sick, we recover, we get sick again, we recover, because it's endemic. However, in my culture I noticed that there is a particular food made from corn. It's not sweetcorn. Something like feed corn. So, we just soak that feed corn for 48 hours, then blend it and allow the water to settle. There is going to be a liquid on top and then a solid part. And then I noticed that people always drink this liquid, just from corn. They don't have anything to eat. So, they they would be drinking it. So, if you have malaria, people drink that. And then, if they want to make a malaria drug, they use that water from the corn. They just boil some leave in it and that is what people use to traditionally to treat malaria.

KAYTE YOUNG:  So, Funmi is in Nigeria. She's noticing that people are treating malaria by drinking the liquid from dry corn that's been soaked for two days and blended. She has a graduate student working with her, and they decide to do some studies on this liquid, to find out what's going on.

FUNMI AYENI:  Let's go beyond the culture. Let's see if it works. So we did a kind of an animal study where we were feeding the rats with that food, that water on top of the corn. And then when we put malaria parasite into the rats, the malaria parasite could not survive. Not a single one.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Wow!

FUNMI AYENI:  Not a single malaria parasite, because we compared that with the control. But with the rats that we were feeding the water on top of corn, nothing. It was absolutely zero parasitemia. And I suddenly found I was saying, "What? What is this?" It's all so unbelievable. And then we now say, "No wonder." So, people in my culture, maybe some people will never have malaria, just because they were drinking that water. And maybe they just prepare that and they just take it like a beverage and they won't have malaria. Whereas, maybe their neighbor is always having malaria. And the food that they eat that is the difference. So, I think that started my journey into anthropology and therapeutic food. These people believe this thing. It's working for them. We tested and we actually published our work in Malaria Journal in, I think, 2020. So, it's a published work.

 So, with that, I now continue my investigation for that food. Not only with malaria. That corn water. We now start using it against different things. It's still astonishing to me because, no matter what I use this water against, it kills them. It kills viruses. It kills bacteria that is causing diarrhea. And also in my culture they use that water when a child has diarrhea. So, I decided to use it against the bacteria that is causing diarrhea and it killed most of them. We use them against viruses, it's killed them. Most of them that I use them against, they are killing them, So I have so much preliminary studies and preliminary data on this particular food. And it's not just an African food. It's just something that anyone can prepare. Corn is the third most important cereal in the world after wheat or rice, so it's all over the world.

 So just soaking this, and then we get all of this benefit that is being used in my country. So, I'm continuing with that. I'm still currently working on that corn food. I think very soon we actually go for a clinical trial with this same thing. And then, after that, I will also work on other cereals. So, my focus on therapeutic food, I think I'm focusing more now on cereal, fermented cereal. So, that's my focus. Because I know we have lots of data on fruits, vegetables and all that. Everybody knows that now. But what about this one that people don't really take note of and it's having all of these benefits?

KAYTE YOUNG:  Well that is an extraordinary story. I could see why that would have excited you and said "Okay, this is where I'm going" [LAUGHS] because that's amazing. Do you think that it has to do with the time period, like the fact that it's fermenting for 48 hours? I mean, 48 hours isn't a long time in a fermentation scale, but it's not just they rinse the corn in water. It's sat there for 48 hours. So, do you think it's something about what the microorganisms are that it's pulling from the environment in that time, or that's already on the corn and is having a chance to develop? What are your theories about what's in that water?

FUNMI AYENI:  There is a current, another animal study that we are starting maybe next month and my hypothesis is this. I think it's the corn itself, not the microorganisms. So, the corn, it's soft. It has some active compounds like phenolic compound, polyphenols. So, this is a very active compound that is present in the cereal. So, when we soak that corn for 48 hours it releases those compounds.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Oh, so it releases it?

FUNMI AYENI:  So, they relax and it releases them. That is the first step. Then when we consume them as a human, then microorganisms that are present in our gut they now interact with that corn and break down those compounds more. So, it started outside the body with that soaking, and then it continues inside the body with the gut microbiome. The microorganisms present in my gut, they now work on those food, they break it down further and then they release maybe a lot of polyphenols and all those things and these components have a systemic effect. So, they don't just stay in the gut. So, when they are released, they go into the blood. They penetrate. They go into different parts of the body and it is such a health benefit. So that is process from literature and from my observation.

 However, I'm fully testing the processes in the work I'm starting this month. So, it's not really in microorganisms, because the work that I want to do now, I will use corn from Nigeria and I will use corn in the United States. I want to prove that it's not just the microorganisms, because the microorganisms from the one in Nigeria would be different from the one in the United States. But the both of them are still having the same effect, then it's the corn.

KAYTE YOUNG:  It also sounds really interesting and beneficial in the sense that the antibiotics that we take, the medicine, they can have a destructive effect on other microorganisms in the gut and can damage health a little bit too, and need to be rebuilt after you've taken them. But it sounds like this is a more integrated systemic kind of thing where it's not killing. It's more like it's making an inhospitable environment for certain kinds of microorganisms.

FUNMI AYENI:  The good ones, yes.

KAYTE YOUNG:  But how does it know what are the good ones and what are the bad ones? [LAUGHS]

FUNMI AYENI:  I know. Because the preliminary study that we did, this corn was killing the bacteria that was causing diarrhea. But the good bacteria, like lactobacillus, of course, it's not killing them.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Wow.

FUNMI AYENI:  So, it's even selective. The ones that are really pathogenic that we don't want, it's destroying them. The ones that we want in our previous study, making them to be more like the lactobacillus that's in those animals. They started with very little, and at the end experiment they have tripled. They have totally increased the importance. So, it's created an environment that is like the pathogenic one, the bad one, are going down and the good ones are increasing.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Wow. Well, that is extraordinary.

FUNMI AYENI:  I know. [LAUGHS] If I wasn't a scientist and I did not do all these things over several years, I think I would be a skeptic. But I've seen the proof over and over again. That is what has given me the confidence to be working more and more on this.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And, like you said, doing clinical trials will bear it out if it's true or not. That's really exciting. You must have been pretty thrilled when you came upon this, or when you got the results.

FUNMI AYENI:  Initially, my student came, and she was worried. She said "I didn't see any parasites." To her it's like a wrong result. But our experiment was set up with a lot of control. This one was normal. So then why are you worried? It shows that they are not growing. So, I asked her to repeat something. She did, and it was still the same thing. So, they are not surviving there. The corn is not making the malaria parasite to survive in those animals.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes, I can imagine being like "Okay,I must have done something wrong, and I need to redo it. Sorry." Wow. So, I mean I can think about some of the effects, the contributions that this kind of research would have for the world. Could you talk about those a little bit? About what you see as possible benefits of this knowledge.

FUNMI AYENI:  My future direction, if this also works in human, which I think it will, if the clinical trial and everything, if it goes well, then I think I want to start looking at this thing as something that people should just take for preventive medicine.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes. That's what I was going to ask, is do people take it preventatively?

FUNMI AYENI:  Because if you have something that goes into your body and needs to release a lot of compounds and everything, then it means it's going to be a preventative measure for cardiovascular diseases. So, if this could reduce the lipid in the blood, releasing glucose, then we don't have to wait until we get sick with this, because then it would become more complicated once we are sick. But if we jump to something that people incorporate, the way they do it in my culture, it's just a normal thing. You don't have to be sick. They remove the water and then people drink it.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Like the whole family drinks it?

FUNMI AYENI:  And then sometimes they can put it on top of another cereal. The water, they remove it, put it on your breakfast cereal and then take it together. So I'm thinking not only for this food, but for many other fermented foods also, if we take this, this could be a kind of preventative, therapeutic food that will help us maybe to maintain the lipid in the blood to maintain our glucose level, to maybe reduce this particular bowel marker, to reduce inflammation, because most diseases are caused by low grade chronic inflammation. Which is another thing I'm actually going to test. So, if we take this particular thing, it reduces all the inflammatory bowel markers and the less the inflammation bowel marker that that we have, the better for us. And I'm also looking for foods that are not expensive. Because fruits and vegetables they are great, but, of course, I also go to grocery store and I know how expensive they are. [LAUGHS]

 Because the very good fruits like the berries, they are so great with antioxidants and everything, but maybe you want to buy blueberries, and it's $5 just for this small pack. Those foods work, but what about the expense?Can everybody afford to be eating them a lot every day? But what if we also look for other means, which is one of my big motivating factor with cereal that are not expensive? And they also prove to be very effective for preventative medicine. You can buy a big bag of feed corn and then you are taking the water on top and it's not expensive at all.

KAYTE YOUNG:  So, how is the corn used as a food? Like the corn that they're soaking, what then is done with it?

FUNMI AYENI:  The water on top is what I've been working on. Now, the solid mass, in my culture, they actually also use it to prepare a kind of cereal.

KAYTE YOUNG:  So, it's like a breakfast cereal, like grits or something?

FUNMI AYENI:  Exactly. So, they remove that mass and then they mix it with boiling water, so that you now have this semi-solid mass and they take it especially for breakfast. Some people will remove the water on top to drink and some people will remove that water and put it on top of that cooked solid mass. So, it's like you are putting milk on your cereal. That is the way they do it. They take it together. And they can also use that mass for a lot of things. They can use it breakfast cereal, they can use it to make a kind of paste that they will eat with soup. So, there are so many things in my culture that they use this for.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Do they do something like, like what they might do in South American countries, making a tortilla kind of thing that gets cooked, or anything like that?

FUNMI AYENI:  I think they can fry it too. But frying is not very common because it's already fermented. So, it has this kind of a little bit sharp taste. But not very sharp, but the fermented taste, just like a yogurt. So, what they usually use it for more is to make breakfast and then, maybe, for dinner they can also use it to make a very thick paste that they are going to use with soup. So, the way that works is, I think the nearest thing in America, it's just like a dumpling. So, you have this solid mass and then you have something like water, something like that. They make it for breakfast and then some people use it for that also.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And is the water that they're taking off of the corn, does it get a little bit cloudy? Like, you described it as pouring milk over it. Does it get a little bit milky looking?

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes, it's not transparently clear. If it's a yellow corn, it could be a little bit yellowish. If it's the white corn, it's going to be a little bit whiteish.

KAYTE YOUNG:  It's really interesting. You know I just recently traveled to Japan and I was in a restaurant and we served soba noodles, which is made from buckwheat. At the end of the meal they gave us this teapot that had the water in it that the soba has cooked in. And they tried to explain, but there was a language barrier, so I wasn't quite sure but it was clear that this was supposed to have some health benefits.

FUNMI AYENI:  Okay, yeah.

KAYTE YOUNG:  They said that they usually, after the meal, they pour it into their bowl and drink it.

FUNMI AYENI:  Exactly.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And I was wondering if it's similar?

FUNMI AYENI:  So similar. Actually, as I continue with my research, I'm not going to be limited to only to maybe African diet. I'm interested in diets from different parts of the world. The United States diet, I'm interested in what's used traditionally. Maybe 1950s, 1960s United States. Particularly, the grandmothers. I was talking to someone, an American, and I said "Tell me your traditional food?" I mean, like, what your grandmother prepared for you. [LAUGHS] I'm more interested in what your grandmother would have breakfast, lunch, dinner. Because this Western influence is not only here, it's everywhere. Even in my country, the young children coming up now, most of their food is Westernized. So, this kind of food I'm talking about, the young kids, although they are Nigerian, they will actually ask me now, "What are you talking about? We don't know what this is."

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes, I think it's interesting. Whenever it's something like that where it's like, what I was just describing with those noodles, the fact that they're making a point of saving this water, there must be a reason.

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Because it doesn't taste particularly good, or anything.

FUNMI AYENI:  But for the health benefits.

KAYTE YOUNG:  There must be a reason that they keep doing it.

FUNMI AYENI:  And they know it works for them. But, you know, sometimes we are so quick to disregard things. Like me before, I could have said, "Oh no, what? That thing is just a placebo effect. It's because you guys believe it's good, that is why it's working." But until I started investigating at source, some of these claims are very real. So, if they say it's working, then sometimes I just want to test it myself, but as a scientist now, to be able to be sure it really works.

KAYTE YOUNG:  There's a probably a lot of cultural traditions that if you go back and look at what people have been doing, and then actually test it to find out is this just mythology, is this just tradition, is it placebo effect?

FUNMI AYENI:  Or if it works. Another thing, because I'm always having all of these ideas in my head, always running around in my head, there was a time that I looked at my dad. My father is, like, 76, in his mid-seventies and where I come from, again, maybe not for the younger generation but maybe the older generation, people don't visit dentists. So, going to the dentist is like a modern thing. So, people like my father's generation, they don't go to the dentist. Of course they brush their teeth, but that is all the care they give to their teeth. And my father is 76 and he has never lost a single tooth in his life. And he has never visited a dentist to do any cleaning, apart from brushing.

KAYTE YOUNG:  That's amazing.

FUNMI AYENI:  What is happening? I visit the dentist every six months and this man's teeth is more healthy than I mine. And at 76, my father eats everything sweet. He has this very sweet tooth.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Okay, so it's not that he avoids sugar?

FUNMI AYENI:  No, he doesn't. And he's still eating all this sugar at 76, and he has never lost a tooth. And I don't think I have ever seen him complaining that he is having pain in his teeth.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Amazing.

FUNMI AYENI:  And now, I'm going towards that direction again, as I'm working with my food diet. What is responsible for my father or many people like him that don't visit the dentist and at least they've never lost a tooth going into their eighties? I have a theory that it's got to be some of this food that they take, that is acting as a protection for them against all the bacteria that is going to make them to lose their teeth. And so, I want to also investigate the food, in the relation to the oral microbiome, which is something that I want to do. [LAUGHS]

KAYTE YOUNG:  That sounds like really useful research. I think we need to know. But I've always understood there's genetics, there's the chemistry in your mouth and all these different things. It's not just about what you eat or how much you brush. So, that's really interesting. And do you think that's pretty common for your father's generation, like are there others in the community?

FUNMI AYENI:  I think so. I think it's very common for that generation. So, my father has not complained of toothache since I've known him, but in that generation I know that some people, even when they have some pain in their gum, what I know they do is they gargle with salty water. They just take a glass of warm water, they add maybe one spoon of salt it and then they gargle, spit it out and they're good to go. That is what I know they do. That I know very well. [LAUGHS] By the following day they tell you that they don't have pain again after using that. They don't swallow it. They just spit it out and they are good to go. So, I just want to also understand what is happening if we are using the very good medicine, we are going to the dentist every six months, so if there is something useful that we could learn from them and we incorporate it with our dentist visit, then maybe we are going to have very healthy teeth.

KAYTE YOUNG:  I'm speaking Funmi Ayeni, she's a Professor in Environmental and Occupational Health at the School of Public Health at Indiana University. After a short break we'll hear more from Funmi about her current research into traditional food used as medicine. And find out where she hopes to take it next. Stay with us.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Kayte Young here, this is Earth Eats. And I'm talking Funmi Ayeni, from the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health in the IU School of Public Health. Her work is focused on antibiotic resistance in the microbiome in the human body. She's interested in traditional household foods that are used as medicine and wants to learn how they stand up to the rigors of scientific research. Much of Funmi's research in the field involves collecting samples from the target populations. So, that would be fecal samples for studying the gut, microbiome, or saliva or she's studying the oral microbiome. She also gathers information through questionnaires filled out by the study participants.

FUNMI AYENI:  Most of this work was actually done in Nigeria. Then I came here and then there was pandemic for two years I was in Boston.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And did that limit the research you were able to do?

FUNMI AYENI:  It totally limited the research that we're able to do. So, there was a kind of standstill. Then I came to Bloomington last year, and then we could start work. So, what I'm currently doing now with my students, we are also going to some animal studies, still on this food, that corn water.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Are you calling it corn water?

FUNMI AYENI:  So, I call it naturally fermented milled corn, NFMC. [LAUGHS]

KAYTE YOUNG:  Okay.

FUNMI AYENI:  Naturally fermented, because those corn are actually milled. So, they're not wholegrain. They are milled. So, that is what I'm calling the product now. [LAUGHS]

KAYTE YOUNG:  Wow. I wonder if the corn needs to be freshly milled or if you buy cornmeal at the store, is that going to be similar?

FUNMI AYENI:  I tend to follow the way it is done in the particular culture. So, what I have always done is to get the wholegrain, the feed corn. So, I get the feed corn, we soak them for 48 hours and then we mill them with the blender until they're very smooth. So, we mill them to make a very fine paste, and then we add water, so it makes the paste. We add water so that there could be liquid on top and there could be solid at the bottom. And then we just set it. After milling we put it down and then we set.

KAYTE YOUNG:  But before you milling it, you're soaking it in water, so it's already softened? So, then you don't need that certain kind of grain mill. You could do it in a blender like you said, because it's been softened? Interesting. So you're soaking it, milling it, and then soaking it again?

FUNMI AYENI:  So, we soak, we mill and then we leave it at room temperature to settle down for like 24 hours.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And then that water is what's pulled from it?

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes. On top, yes.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And right now you're doing another animal test.

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes, for another animal, because I want to see if the effects that I saw with Nigerian corn, if I also see it with the United States corn. Bearing in mind that everything is different. It's still the same corn. Just like human beings, all of us are human beings, but people from Nigeria look different from people from United States, right? So, that is the same with the corn. It's also corn, but the environment, where it was crushed, where it was grown, everything is different from Nigerian environment. And I just want to see all those effects that I saw with Nigerian corn, am I also going to see it with the feed corn from United States?

KAYTE YOUNG:  And you're using feed corn?

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes. So, it's not sweetcorn. The Nigerian one is just like the feed corn. It's a bigger grain. It's not the sweetcorn, yeah.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Well, we grow a lot of that I think here in the United States and here in Indiana.

FUNMI AYENI:  Unfortunately, you know, I went to the community market in Indiana to look around, but I didn't see any. Like, that's a farmer's market. I got to know that it's not existing. They are just planting it now. That before the feed corn will come, maybe it is going to be later in the year. I said, "Okay."

KAYTE YOUNG:  After the animal studies Funmi hopes to move into human trials. She wants to look at some common health issues, such as high cholesterol and inflammation and see what kind of effect this corn water could have in treating those types of issues.

FUNMI AYENI:  And the good thing about this is this is just, like I say, is food. It's what people eat. So, it's not like oh, maybe there's going to be consequences. It's going to kill people. No, it's just food. [LAUGHS]

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes. And, like you said, it's so accessible. I feel like, oh I could go home and do this. [LAUGHS]

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes, anyone that has access to that corn can do it. And you don't have to look for other ingredients, you don't have to look for something to add. Maybe have a cup of this or two cups of this. No, it's just corn and water, with a blender. [LAUGHS]

KAYTE YOUNG:  Do you think that you will, or maybe research that might stem from this-- it may not just be you doing it-- but that people might start looking at some other grains, other cereals and see what kind of effects they could have as well?

FUNMI AYENI:  Exactly. So, that is actually my dream. With all the information we have on fruit and vegetables, which is great, and I'm sure we'll still keep getting more information, but maybe to some other things that people have not really put in, have not put so much attention to in the science world. Some people have worked on it, but it's not the kind of work that you've seen in other kinds of food. So, people just take cereal as food, but I'm taking cereal as drug. So extending to another cereal that could have all this effect, maybe starting with a lot of preliminary data and lab work to see if they have antioxidants property, do they have anti-bacteria property, do they have anti-viral, which is what we did initially. And then if the lab continues to see all these things and then the person is convinced that I'm getting a lot of good data, we start going to the next step.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes, that's very exciting. I just love hearing about this, because I have definitely looked into some of the fermented foods like sauerkraut or yogurt.

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes, a lot of study has been done on that.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes and kombucha. But it feels like it's kind of a niche sort of market. Like some people are into doing that and then other people, that's just not going to be part of their food. But this feels like something that's just so ordinary.

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes.

KAYTE YOUNG:  And that a lot of people could do it, and it's accessible to a lot of people.

FUNMI AYENI:  So ordinary and it's having all these great effects.

KAYTE YOUNG:  So, can you say anything about what led you to wanting to do this kind of science study? As a child, how did you grow up and what kinds of things made you interested in pursuing science and this kind of work?

FUNMI AYENI:  As a child, I actually don't know why, but a very little child, if I'm sick I'm not going to eat anything except fruit. My mother actually starts calling me fruit. [LAUGHS]

KAYTE YOUNG:  So, as a kid when she was sick Funmi would only eat fruit. To complicate matters, in Nigeria the availability of fruit is seasonally dependent.

FUNMI AYENI:  You know during the rainy season, like the Spring, all we have are bottles of so many fruits everywhere. And then towards the end of the year we go into a dry season. So, during the dry season you hardly see any fruit. All the fruits would have gone. So, we don't do this maybe greenhouse farming that you can have fruit all year. And trust me, I will actually get sick during the dry season, when there is no fruit. And my mother knows that I'm not going to eat anything unless I get fruit. She will now starting looking all over the town, telling everyone "Please do you just have a little fruit? Maybe you have a little plant by the stream, by the water, because my daughter will not eat unless she sees fruit." And I'm the only one doing that in my family. Other people are not like that. I'm the only one. And then as I grew older, if I want to eat I just am comfortable eating fruit.

 Like, I could eat fruit all day and I'm fine, without even eating anything except fruit. So, I eat more fruit and I'm okay. So, as I now got into my graduate study and I began to work on therapeutic food, knowing all the benefits that all these things could do, I also apply it to my personal life as an adult. Like, if I have malaria, which everybody where I come from, like most people anyway, many people have malaria because it's endemic, if I'm having malaria, I'm not going to take a drug. My first treatment for malaria is fruit and vegetables. I wasn't used to this corn water then.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Because you didn't know about it?

FUNMI AYENI:  But I just take fruit, vegetables and sleep. And then when I do this I'm fine, ready to get up.

KAYTE YOUNG:  So, it sounds like you've always been drawn to food as medicine.

FUNMI AYENI:  Yes, I think so. When I looked at my lifestyle and then, with the knowledge that I get in science, I said, "Okay I think this thing is working for me, so why don't we make it on a bigger scale?" Not only for me, let's make it for everybody. And then, I have all the information I need about fruit and vegetables, then why don't I just go into another niche where we don't have so much information.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Yes, it sounds like as a child you intuitively, like it was just a desire for you, but there was some part of you that knew that's what you needed.

FUNMI AYENI:  I know, I think so.

KAYTE YOUNG:  I asked Funmi why she thought she hadn't been aware of the traditional corn water earlier in her life?

FUNMI AYENI:  The reason why I didn't pay attention to it is, naturally I don't like anything semi-solid, like yogurt. You know, something like that, the consistency. And that is how this food is. So, maybe that is why initially I didn't pay attention to it, because it's just like the food I just don't like naturally. When I now started going into food and this thing, I just remembered that I see people around me always taking this thing for malaria. I put all those things together and I just told my student, "Why don't we investigate it?" It doesn't matter if we have negative results, it's fine, but let's go to the lab and do this thing.

KAYTE YOUNG:  So, it was really just an observation and then a hunch, like let's try it, let's find out.

FUNMI AYENI:  Exactly.

KAYTE YOUNG:  That's really great, that's the makings of a great scientist.

FUNMI AYENI:  Thank you.

FUNMI AYENI:  I'm so grateful for Western medicine. I had a very serious issue that when the doctor did this surgery and all my symptoms disappeared, I said "Doctors are miracle workers." [LAUGHS] Because how can you have this very severe symptom and then somebody just come in and they cut something and they cut something, and then I'm totally fine? I say, "These people are great." So, I love Western medicine. However, I also look back that some of our ancestors actually are getting some things right. Of course, not everything. Many things they didn't get right, but there's some things they got right with food. So, instead of totally discarding those things, I look back, I look into different cultures and when I talk to people I want to know what the grandmother cooks. I want to know what they eat when they were young.

 I think there's a lot of things to do to prevent diseases, especially many of these chronic conditions that we live with, if we can look back at what has been working before, and then we also combine it with going to our doctor with the Western medicine, I think that is the holistic medicine that is my dream, that I'm looking for.

KAYTE YOUNG:  Well thank you so much for talking with me Funmi, I really appreciate it.

FUNMI AYENI:  Thank you.

KAYTE YOUNG:  That was Funmi Ayeni, Professor in the Department of Environmental and Occupational Health in the IU School of Public Health. Find links to her work at eartheats.org.

KAYTE YOUNG:  The Earth Eats team includes Eoban Binder, Alexis Carvahal, Alex Chambers

Mark Chilla, Toby Foster, Daniella Richardson, Samantha Schemenaur,

Payton Whaley and Harvest Public Media. Earth Eats is produced and edited by me Kayte Young. Our theme music is composed by Erin Tobey and performed by Erin and Matt Tobey. Additional music on the show comes to us from Universal Production Music. Our executive producer is Eric Bolstridge.