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Ask The Mayor: Bloomington's Hamilton On COVID Metrics, Upzoning, And Your Questions

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Unknown Speaker
We are live on Facebook. Ask the mayor on Wi Fi you once a month. We're joined by Bloomington. JOHN Hamilton. Again. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, for joining us today. Oh, it's

Unknown Speaker
good to be with you, Joe and everybody else that you're paying attention to Bloomington.

Unknown Speaker
And if you'd like to submit a question, as always news at Indiana public media.org. Or you can go to our Twitter feed at ask the mayor and the other mayors to john or Jim went up in Columbus and do Bennett in Terre Haute. We talked to DAX Norton down in Nashville as well. Feel free to send messages through there as well. And we'll talk to them the other weeks during the month but right now we're in Bloomington and we'll just start with COVID. Mr. Mayor vaccines going up but cases going up and row counties in the yellow advisory code. A lot of people may be thinking the pandemic is over. But it's not why our numbers kind of going the other way.

Unknown Speaker
It's not over and Joe I keep hearing in my ears. That statement of the CDC director will Lenski who says we just have to be humble that this virus we think we know what's going on, but really over the last four to six weeks. While we're very pleased that the vaccinations are going up and people are getting those really important shots. During the last four to six weeks, both at the state level and locally. We've seen substantial increases in cases in positivity rate and in hospitalizations, all three go in the wrong direction, really over a 50% increase by the data. And that's concerning. We're not where we were before but we sure wished after the winter height that we would keep going down and we are seeing unfortunately a resurgence now. We can do the two main things we need to do. We just we have to get vaccinated. The more and more of us, I've had my second shot. I'm glad that's done. And we besides vaccinations, we need to keep physical distancing, masking, protecting ourselves, you know, we're, we're still only at about a quarter of the people vaccinated, give or take. And that's not nearly where we need to be to get really a handle on the infections.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, as of Monday, it was 25.5% of Monroe County's population over Of course, 16. Fully vaccinated, just over 42% at least one shot, what metrics are you looking at, to loosen restrictions when we get there?

Unknown Speaker
Well, and Joe, you know, we have kept I'm very pleased. We're one of the few counties in the state that has kept our restrictions tighter I, I don't endorse, I think it was a mistake to loosen restrictions in the state. When we see these increases in cases and hospitalizations. We're just going to watch two main numbers, I think, in which when they cross and how they move, one is how many people are fully vaccinated. And we really want to see that number get up to three quarters or more. And the other main number, I guess, it's a couple different set of numbers are, what do we see in terms of the positivity rate, the the daily case loads, and the hospitalizations, we're glad that the deaths statewide seem to be flattening, which means those who are getting sick, fewer are dying, which is really important. But we still have we've had a 50% plus increase in cases and hospitalizations and positivity rate. And that's, you know, that's really concerning. It's humbling. We're not where we need to be yet.

Unknown Speaker
Last time, we talked, the city projected I think was around $22 million. In federal rescue plan, funding. County gets a little bit more a lot of guidelines for state and so forth. But there are no specific guidelines in place in Terre Haute, Mayor Duke Bennett said the same just as early as last week and thought that maybe the first deposit be coming in May Has anything changed in your from from what you've heard.

Unknown Speaker
So I do think it's really important, this is a very big deal to have the national government forwarding these kinds of resources, city by city, county by county to help us recover. It's an extraordinary and really important investment, the $50 million or so that will be coming to our community, our county, our city is a it's a big deal. It really will help us invest in recovery and rescue. We expect the strings to be pretty, pretty light. I think there's some, we're still waiting for regulations to come out. And we I don't know the exact timing of when that money will come. But I do expect it soon. The whole point is to try to move, move that quickly. We're going to be talking actually next week, we have a meeting with City Council, they have to appropriate any of the funds at the city level just like the county council does at the county level. And we'll be starting those conversations with the City Council and the public more generally about where do we want to go forward with this. But it's a really important, really important opportunity to invest in economic recovery and social services and housing and homeless issues, and others infrastructure, and also the backstop a little bit of the revenue that we've lost in the last year and a half or so.

Unknown Speaker
And there has to be some sort of coordination, when you think about, you know, the counties getting money, the state is getting money, how does that coordination come into play so that the funds are getting distributed evenly or, you know, one areas and getting money from the county and the state are like that? Yeah, you know, their conversations going on just yesterday was

Unknown Speaker
talking with county colleagues about how to coordinate in particular, perhaps around homelessness, and maybe some of the physical infrastructure that we might do, each of us will be looking at the needs that our governments respond to most directly. I'm actually in pretty close coordination right now with some state officials about potential state local collaboration on homeless responses, I think, you know, the state got about $3 billion earmarked for them, compared to about 2 billion total for all the cities and towns and counties. So we're working with them, that communication is really important. Frankly, it's helpful to have our own resources at the local level. So we can go to the state and work together on that not just have to go there with an empty hat and ask the state to to support us that way.

Unknown Speaker
Let's get to some questions. We have about six or seven people who have emailed in already, and we do want to get to you do I know that's a big thing going on this month as well. But let's get to Constance first who emailed in wants to know the number of people who have survived the infection, then adding or how was the number of people who have survived the infection than adding to the herd immunity picture?

Unknown Speaker
Well, that's a good it's a good point when we talk about the vaccination levels of 25%. There are certainly some people who've been infected who have not gotten vaccinated. We don't know the exact numbers and of course, the the health experts urge all of us to get vaccinated regardless, or not whether we were infected I, I had COVID antibodies, but the the health experts say get get vaccinated anyway. So the key is getting that vaccination level up to 75%. We don't know how long the and I'm no no epidemiologist, but I know there's questions about how long the antibodies last just from one infection that you might have had a year ago now. So so the vaccine number is really important.

Unknown Speaker
Christine wants to know, is anyone considering Bloomington senior citizens who can't walk or bike when closing off downtown areas for shopping and eating?

Unknown Speaker
Well, yes, absolutely. We're trying to make sure everybody can have access to facilities, whether their people disabilities, inability to walk, etc. please reach out to any of your venues that you're interested in going to directly if you want to do that, but we're working very closely with the city are working very closely with the downtown merchants to identify both parklets the little closing of a one or two parking spaces to allow some more outdoor seating to the continued pick up drop off zones to the half block or black block long closings in Kirkwood, we try to make sure there's access Of course, both for emergency vehicles and also through alleys and other ways for people who need closer access to those places. And if you have any problems, again, talk to the venue you're going to or reach out to our our Human Rights Office can help with that, too. Okay.

Unknown Speaker
Alan writes in how was the new hospital impacting development around it? were our medical offices planned?

Unknown Speaker
It's a great question. We don't know really, we expect that as you kind of imply as the hospital relocates and re ends planning to open late this year, fourth quarter of this year. We do expect there will be some ancillary medical offices want to locate there and maybe smooth some of them from the current hospital site to the new hospital site. We've seen a major housing development that I think is focused on workers and workforce that's, that's planned there on Pinellas drive pretty close. So that's one of the first big things we've seen. I think that'll play out in the years ahead. We do expect that eastern side, a side of the bypass and hospital new hospital area to develop with with some more ancillary services. We just we haven't I don't know details on that yet. Haven't seen it, but we do expect it in the years ahead.

Unknown Speaker
On this one, too. She's she wants to know when the state will upgrade the Pete Allison 10th Street intersection.

Unknown Speaker
I'm sorry, I can't give you the exact date. But yes, the Pete Ellis. Pete Elson 10th Street intersection is planned to be improved. That's a State Road. And so basically, Department of Transportation, the State Department kind of runs that. I can try to get that if you want to call my office and we'll try to get you more specifics on that.

Unknown Speaker
Vicki just writes in Why do they keep building apartments on every vacant space and Blizzard?

Unknown Speaker
Well, I don't know that. I agree. That's an accurate description, though. We do see certainly investments in apartments in in Bloomington substantial, some on North walnut and we're seeing a proposal on 13th Street and others. It may be a segue into the unified development ordinance. Joe, you know, one of the things we're trying to do in the new unified development ordinance is steer kind of major undergraduate focused student housing developments into into into zones and today's actually a new zoning designation for multifamily student housing to make to steer it close to the university close to transit lines in the in the most appropriate places. And that map is going in front of the city council this month and probably in the next month. And we do see people wanting to invest in the community to build more housing for students. We see also some developers of single family housing and smaller developments and such. We expect to See more of that in the hospital reuse areas and around switchyard, we've opened some there was a ribbon groundbreaking for new hope for families, residences, and many others. So it is true Bloomington doesn't does not have a lot of vacant land. There are a few large tracts that are undeveloped still. But we do see investors and developers who are interested in building housing. And that's good. That's important, too. We're a growing city, and we need to have investment in new new places for people to live.

Unknown Speaker
And, you know, I think it's a, it was kind of a wide open question, but it's a good question, because a lot of what I see online, too, is this sentiment of, Oh, another housing going up or Oh, another apartment do all Bloomington needs is another apartment, the duplex, but you kind of answered this. But I guess what you're saying is that I mean, a lot of this distance of the city building these apartments, these are developers coming in buying land and developing within code, right? Yeah, look,

Unknown Speaker
I mean, our community has been growing by about 1000 people a year, relatively consistently for for quite a number of years. And that means those 1000 people need to live someplace. And that's true both inside the city and inside the county. And the number I gave was the city population increasing by that. So people wanting to be here, whether it's for work, whether it's for education, whether it's for retirement, but all those things, draw people to our community, it's a it's a very popular place to be, it's a very high quality of life. And so if you have 1000 people a year, increasing in population, they of course need places to live. So the range from rental housing to have to ownership housing. Now, it's also useful to note, I think that when a major rental property is built with 200 units, or 300 units, that may loosen up some of the market in other places, whether it's older apartment buildings, or scattered rental houses. So we we continue to see evolution. And that's one of the things the unified development ordinance is trying to manage and steer, if you will, into both where things should be built, and what kinds of things should be built and how

Unknown Speaker
good segue here by Stephen, who writes in what do the people of city or county council think affordable housing is by a numbers standpoint, like single parent with two kids? What do they think this person should be able to afford to live?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, look, Bloomington in Monroe County is a very expensive place to live. It's the most expensive housing market in the state of Indiana, both for rental and for ownership. And when we talk about affordable, it's a really important and good question. Say what what do we mean? Well, some of that means finding units that can be rented for $0 a month or $200 a month or $400 a month for people with very low income. Some of that can mean finding a house that costs $250,000, or $200,000, or $300,000. When we think about affordability and meeting that challenge, we're really talking about families that may be making $60,000 a year or, or 65,070, certainly 50,000 40,000 $30,000 a year, that whole range is feeling the pressure, the the the kind of standard benchmark that is used is saying you shouldn't spend more than 30% of your gross income on housing. And if you are spending more than that, then you're you're you're facing housing pressure, insecurity. So whatever your income is, that's kind of a benchmark that we want to look at. How are there opportunities for people, whether you're making $15,000 a year or $60,000 a year? What kind of housing is available at that 30% benchmark?

Unknown Speaker
I know we're getting short on time. I'm gonna let Cathy here transition us to the UDL. Her question is homeowners are often very vocal and community discussions about local land use and zoning. How could the city of Bloomington get more input and feedback from underrepresented communities such as low income people, homeless residents and renters?

Unknown Speaker
Well, it's a really important question. It's true in all what in many, many ways in public life that getting public feedback is not you don't always get equal voices. You know, voting one person, one vote, that's our concept. Everybody gets one vote. And of course, not everybody does vote Some are more over represented. But similarly in public discussions, we'd like to hear the voices of everyone now. That doesn't always happen. There are people who are more organized to have more time we will have more ability to participate In public settings, we we do a lot. We use a an actually there's a there's a public survey city survey in the street right now, that's a randomly selected city survey to try to get a scientifically valid response on a lot of different issues. We, we try to make sure we reach out in different times of day in different modalities of meetings to get feedback. But it is true you one of the jobs of a public official like me, or like a city council member, is to try to remind ourselves that you don't always hear all the voices of everyone who's interested in a project. blatant example, on the unified development ordinance. One of the some of the people who care most about a development ordinance don't live here now. They don't live here yet. They want to move here. They might, they might come here in the next 10 years. Well, we don't hear from them. But we have to try to think about what are their interests? And how do we meet them. So I do think that you do the unified development ordinance process in front of the council will encourage voices. Last thing I'll say about that is I do hope we can continue to have civil, civic dialogue, respectful, not discouraging people from talking who may have a different viewpoint from us, but recognizing different viewpoints are welcome. That's how we get better decisions.

Unknown Speaker
And some of those viewpoints a group that has formed called go farther together, asking city to reject this proposed up zoning and downtown neighborhoods restart the process. Now it's in the hands of city council because just approved by the Planning Commission last month, but these residents really worried that these duplexes triplexes will threaten their their neighborhoods, they say it's a fundamental change of prioritize prioritizing single family zoning, is that true?

Unknown Speaker
Well, there's a part of you know, often these are things are hard to simplify. The first thing I'd say this is a five year process. So it really began back in 2016. With the starting of the comprehensive plan, that was a multi year process has now led to the unified development ordinance. It's a long process. So I know sometimes people jump in or feel that the process needs more time. Often, if they're frustrated with where they think the result is going, they want more time to try to make their case. But this has been a really long process. I expect and hope the city council will move forward expeditiously on it. I do always remind people all these documents are in a three ring binder, we can pull a page out next year, we can change things year by year that we're not this is not a Bible we're creating. We're creating a guide and we can keep changing it. In terms of the duplexes. And that's been an issue there are people on both sides of that issue. The basic view I think that's represented in the administration's proposal is that this this idea of a missing middle, our country in our state in our community since World War Two, has really focused most of the development on single family homes, and on multifamily apartment buildings significant sized 20 or above, let's say through before World War Two and many people believe going forward, we really need to make sure we make room for this missing middle housing like duplexes and quads and Co Op housing and townhomes and smaller settings that are kind of like in between a traditional single family home and a significant size multifamily. So we like many communities are trying to figure out how do you help that missing middle evolve? It's an evolution. It's not a revolution. And I think that's what the planning commission the Planning Commission is urging and it's gonna be in front of the city council in the weeks ahead.

Unknown Speaker
But But the question is, will that threaten their neighborhoods though that missing middle?

Unknown Speaker
No, look, I don't believe so. One thing I I always remind people is I think we will see evolution not revolution, if things are going in the wrong direction we can we can tailor it and tweak it and change it. People felt that way. If a couple years back about accessory dwelling units, there's a great concern is that going to wreck neighborhoods to allow what are called granny flats or accessory dwelling units and it's proven not to be the case. Now, if anything starts to wreck our neighborhoods, we're all going to want to respond I'm going to want to respond and City Council's going to respond but what we're trying to do I think is enhance the quality of life for more people make them more inclusive city make more opportunity for more people with different income levels and different backgrounds to be able to access our all of our neighborhoods. Make sure that we as be as inclusive as we can be. And that does mean evolution changing. The city has evolved for 202 years and we're going to keep evolving I think and we want to do it in the way that makes quality of life improve for everyone for all people.

Unknown Speaker
I think so but we didn't talk about on here is a good point that the zone was reintroduced or was, I guess, rejected by city council a year or so ago. So why? Why go through this again?

Unknown Speaker
Well, I think the debate, for example, about accessory dwelling units or the debate about this missing middle has been has been going on for years. And it will continue to go on for years. And we're not. This is not ending any debate about where we're where we're headed. The the unified development ordinance is this is a point in time, where we do put in place a new map that has a few new zoning districts like the multifamily student I mentioned. It's got what's called an R for resident for the densest kind of smallest lot size, but that will continue to evolve. We try to give predictability periodically, but none of these issues is is ever over. we're evolving city and will continue to evolve.

Unknown Speaker
Gotta go one more, kind of big news item IU has a new president Pamela Witten hasn't been a week yet, but I don't know. Have you met her or any first impressions? Well, I'm

Unknown Speaker
very excited for Indiana University, a new chapter President mcrobbie. So 14 year tenure ending with Ms. Whitman's new tenure. I've not met her I look forward to it. I'll be in communication with her soon. But also Provost rebell, taking retirement to a different status. And so we've got a lot of change. We just had a one of our regular town gown meetings this week. And we talked about those changes. It's a wonderful relationship between Indiana University and the city. We work very closely in all kinds of ways. And I look forward to welcoming Pamela Witten to town and to show her to tour her around the city and let her let her know. And I look forward to working very closely with her.

Unknown Speaker
All right, well, I know we're out of time, but I always like to leave the last last minute to you any announcements or things you'd like to say?

Unknown Speaker
Well, I would just say Please, everybody continue to be careful in protecting ourselves from the pandemic and be watching for for big arch projects. We announced coming this summer that will be exciting and keep keep doing your part to get our city moving forward. There are events on the horizon that we'll be able to enjoy together safely. And I look forward to seeing you around town.

Unknown Speaker
Thank you very much, and we'll see you next month.
Bloomington Mayor John Hamilton

Bloomington Mayor John Hamilton during Tuesday's Zoom call. (Zoom)

We take your questions on the city's COVID metrics, up-tick in cases, Rescue Plan funding, herd immunity, senior citizen parking downtown, UDO zoning, and reaction to IU's new president.

On this week’s installment of Ask The Mayor, Bloomington Mayor John Hamilton addresses these issues and more during a Facebook Live Zoom event Tuesday. Listen to the full conversation with Indiana Newsdesk anchor Joe Hren by clicking on the play button above, or read some of the questions and answers below. A portion of this segment airs 6:45 and 8:45 a.m. Wednesday on WFIU. Here are some highlights.

This conversation has been edited for clarity and conciseness.

Hren: We've received a few emails, but before we get to those - as of Monday, 25.5% of Monroe County's population over 16 are fully vaccinated, just over 42% have at least one shot, what metrics are you looking at to loosen restrictions when we get there?

Hamilton: I'm very pleased. We're one of the few counties in the state that has kept our restrictions tighter. I think it was a mistake to loosen restrictions in the state when we see these increases in cases and hospitalizations.

We're just going to watch two main numbers, one is how many people are fully vaccinated. We really want to see that number get up to three quarters or more. And the other main number, it's a couple different set of numbers are, what do we see in terms of the positivity rate, the daily case loads, and the hospitalizations. We're glad that the deaths statewide seem to be flattening, which means those who are getting sick, fewer are dying, which is really important. But we've had a 50% plus increase in cases and hospitalizations and positivity rate. And that's really concerning. It's humbling. We're not where we need to be yet.

Christine: Is anyone considering Bloomington's senior citizens (who don't walk or bike) when closing off downtown areas for shopping and eating

Hamilton: Well, yes, absolutely. We're trying to make sure everybody can have access to facilities, whether they're people with disabilities, inability to walk, etc. Please reach out to any of your venues that you're interested in going to directly if you want to do that.

We're working very closely with the downtown merchants to identify both parklets the little closing of one or two parking spaces to allow some more outdoor seating, to the continued pick up drop off zones, to the half block or black block long closings in Kirkwood, we try to make sure there's access, of course, both for emergency vehicles and also through alleys and other ways for people who need closer access. And if you have any problems, again, talk to the venue you're going to or reach out to our our Human Rights Office can help with that, too.

A photo taken outside Nick's English Hut on Kirkwood Avenue

Vicki: Why do they keep building apartments on every vacant space?

Hamilton: We do see certainly investments in apartments in in Bloomington, some on North Walnut and we're seeing a proposal on 13th Street and others. Joe, you know, one of the things we're trying to do in the new Unified Development Ordinance is steer major student housing developments into zones and actually a new zoning designation for multifamily student housing to steer it close to the university, close to transit lines in the most appropriate places. And that map is going in front of the city council this month.

We do see people wanting to invest in the community to build more housing for students. We see also some developers of single family housing and smaller developments and such. We expect to see more of that in the hospital reuse areas and around Switchyard, we've opened some - there was a ribbon groundbreaking for New Hope For Families, residences, and many others.

So it is true Bloomington doesn't have a lot of vacant land. There are a few large tracts that are undeveloped still. But we do see investors and developers who are interested in building housing. And that's good.

Our community has been growing by about 1,000 people a year, relatively consistently for quite a number of years. And that means those 1,000 people need to live someplace. So people want to be here, whether it's for work, whether it's for education, whether it's for retirement, but all those things, draw people to our community, it's a very popular place to be, it's a very high quality of life.

Downtown Apartments 2

Steven: What do the people of city or county council think affordable housing is by a numbers stand point? Like single parent with 2 kids. What do they think this person should be able to afford to live?

Hamilton: Bloomington in Monroe County is a very expensive place to live. It's the most expensive housing market in the state of Indiana, both for rental and for ownership. And when we talk about affordable, it's a really important and good question. What do we mean? Well, some of that means finding units that can be rented for $0 a month or $200 a month or $400 a month for people with very low income.

Some of that can mean finding a house that costs $250,000, or $200,000, or $300,000. When we think about affordability and meeting that challenge, we're really talking about families that may be making $60,000 a year or, or $70 certainly $50,000 $40,000 $30,000 a year, that whole range is feeling the pressure.

The kind of standard benchmark that is used is saying you shouldn't spend more than 30% of your gross income on housing. And if you are spending more than that, then you're facing housing pressure, insecurity. So whatever your income is, that's the kind of a benchmark we want to look at.

Cathi: Homeowners are often very vocal in community discussions about local land use and zoning. How could the city of Bloomington get more input and feedback from underrepresented communities such as low income people, homeless residents, and renters?

Hamilton: It's true in many ways in public life that getting public feedback is you don't always get equal voices. You know, voting one person, one vote, that's our concept. Not everybody does vote and some are over-represented. But similarly in public discussions, we'd like to hear the voices of everyone now. That doesn't always happen.

There are people who are more organized to have more time will have more ability to participate in public settings. We do a lot. There's a public city survey in the street right now, that's a randomly selected city survey to try to get a scientifically valid response on a lot of different issues. We, try to make sure we reach out in different times of day in different modalities of meetings to get feedback.

But it is true, one of the jobs of a public official like me, or like a city council member, is to try to remind ourselves that you don't always hear all the voices of everyone who's interested in a project. Blatant example, on the Unified Development Ordinance. Some of the people who care most about a development ordinance don't live here now. They don't live here yet. They want to move here. Well, we don't hear from them. But we have to try to think about what are their interests? And how do we meet them. I do hope we can continue to have civil, civic dialogue, respectful, not discouraging people from talking who may have a different viewpoint from us, but recognizing different viewpoints are welcome. That's how we get better decisions.

READ MORE: Bloomington City Council Begins Discussions On Proposed Zoning Changes In The UDO

Hren: And some of those viewpoints a group that has formed called Go Farther Together, asking the city to reject the proposed upzoning in downtown neighborhoods and restart the process. These residents are really worried that these proposed duplexes triplexes will threaten their neighborhoods, they say it's a fundamental change of prioritizing single family zoning, is that true?

Hamilton: The first thing I'd say this is a five year process. So it really began back in 2016 with the starting of the comprehensive plan, that was a multi year process has now led to the Unified Development Ordinance. It's a long process. So I know sometimes people jump in or feel that the process needs more time. Often, if they're frustrated with where they think the result is going, they want more time to try to make their case.

I do always remind people all these documents are in a three ring binder, we can pull a page out next year, we can change things year by year. This is not a Bible we're creating. We're creating a guide and we can keep changing it. In terms of the duplexes, the basic view I think that's represented in the administration's proposal is this idea of a 'missing middle.' Our country in our state in our community since World War Two has really focused most of the development on single family homes and on multifamily apartment buildings significant sized.

Many people believe going forward, we really need to make sure we make room for this missing middle housing like duplexes and quads and Co-Op housing and townhouses and smaller settings that are in between a traditional single family home and a significant size multifamily. So we like many communities are trying to figure out how do you help that missing middle evolve? It's an evolution. It's not a revolution.

A photo of a row of multiplex houses in Bloomington.
A photo of a row of multiplex houses in Bloomington.

Hren: But the question is, will that threaten their neighborhoods through that missing middle?

Hamilton: No, look, I don't believe so. One thing I always remind people is I think we will see evolution not revolution, if things are going in the wrong direction we can tailor it and tweak it and change it. People felt that way a couple years back about accessory dwelling units, there's a great concern is that going to wreck neighborhoods to allow what are called granny flats or accessory dwelling units and it's proven not to be the case. Now, if anything starts to wreck our neighborhoods, we're all going to want to respond I'm going to want to respond and City Council's going to respond but what we're trying to do I think is enhance the quality of life for more people - make them more inclusive for more people with different income levels and different backgrounds to be able to access our all of our neighborhoods.

Hren: Another concern from those residents, but something we haven't talked about here is that the re-zoning was introduced or, I guess, rejected by city council just a year or so ago. So why go through this again?

Hamilton: I think the debate, for example, about accessory dwelling units or the debate about this missing middle has been has been going on for years. And it will continue to go on for years. This is not ending any debate about where we're headed. The Unified Development Ordinance is a point in time. We're an evolving city and will continue to evolve.

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