Hren
Hello and welcome to ask the mayor on WFIU. I'm Joe Hren. This week, we're with Terre Haute Mayor Brandon Sakbun on another cold, snowy day, hello and welcome.
Sakbun
Well, I'm happy you brought it up first that 2025, is definitely off to a chilly start, not one, but two big snowfalls, which presents a number of challenges for any mayor, for any city that we've been navigating the last couple of days. But yes, it's been cold, really, really. Hope it warms up next couple of weeks and 2025, can really get going.
Hren
So I'm not sure how much Terre Haute got. Did you get the full foot of snow like some of us got?
Sakbun
No, no Joe, we had, you know, about eight inches. Of course, different portions of the county received different amounts. And, you know, we did deploy, we hit 36 hours straight of snow plowing and getting that salt and sand out, trying to to get it off the road. And we had 13 total snow plows for 36 hours. Great job by our street department. Not just keeping the main roads clear, but even starting to tackle some of those side streets and some of those neighborhood subdivisions and heavily residential areas. So I would say we did a pretty good job, all things considered. They worked hard. They gave it their all. It's hard to please everyone when it snows, you know, people get frustrated, cooped up. But we worked really hard to get a tear up, open and ready for business. And I think we accomplished that.
Hren
I see you did a ride-along with the city plow truck, too. Does that give you a new appreciation for what they do out there?
Sakbun
Ah, man, Joe, you take some of those corners and go down some of those streets and, yeah, let me tell you, my heart rate definitely went up. It's, it's fun, but I really like doing that, just to show folks, you know, kind of a first-hand POV of what it looks like going down a very skinny one way, with cars parked on both sides. Or, you know, I showed how we had literally plowed a street, and within 90 minutes later, two and a half more inches of snow were there. So I'm like, Look, guys, this is a consistent challenge. And one, I do think it helps people have a little bit of grace and appreciation for those employees, but two, get a firm understanding of just how heavy of an undertaking this is, I do want to thank INDOT and our county commissioners, both groups were great to work with. I think when it snows, people don't realize what's a state Road, county road or city street, but they want it clear. And working with those other agencies was definitely a good time, strong communication. I saw a lot of yellow INDOT snow plows out on the streets as well so I want to personally thank them for that. And our three county commissioners, Commissioner _______ and I were heavily involved with keeping warming centers funded and open during this time period. I know we had several, and he's helped continue that with me. So you know, those are our most vulnerable people, right? Those who don't have a home or don't have a room to go to when it snows. And being able to get those warming centers up and operational is a huge win for the community.
Hren
How is the salt supply? You know, knowing too that I think there's another inch maybe coming Tuesday, and maybe even talk with another winter-type situation this weekend.
Sakbun
So thankfully, you know, we are good on our inventory. Now, we are doing our yearly order anyways, which all you know, we order, we'd ordered a little bit more the last couple of years and had mild winters, so we were prepared. From that standpoint, I did do some things where I use a little bit less sand than normal, and that definitely helped with some of the streets. But you can't always make that decision, because you got to look at the inventory and the winner that we've been having, we are going to use a lot more salt than normal, but we do believe our inventory levels are where they need to be.
Hren
And then just what's the process in Terre Haute on keeping sidewalks clear? Is that up to business owners, homeowners?
Sakbun
So, yes, the business owners and homeowners do do that. I have reached out to a couple of other mayors, and they've shared with me different ideas that they do. Some of them, they're downtown organizations have purchased a small Gator, side by side vehicle to clear like your downtown sidewalks. And, you know, I think it's really important government sets the conditions for a pro-business growth environment. Part of that is ensuring that we have pedestrian foot traffic, even if there's some snow outside. And I definitely will be looking that, at that, in 2026 maybe even by the end of the snow season, if we can pull some strings. But for example, we had a large Indiana State University basketball game, and there were people who were struggling to walk on the sidewalk. So I took that to heart. I said, Hey, look, yes, it's the businesses that do that. But still, you know, let's take a look at that situation and say, are we handling this correct? I know some cities, they'll keep they'll even go out and find people if they don't do it, and we are not at all going down that route. Now, our school corporation has been incredible, keeping the sidewalks in and around the school clear, as well as a number of our private businesses. So it's definitely been an undertaking. My focus was, I think, a little bit too much on the roads and not as much on the sidewalks, and I'll admit to that, we look forward to continuing to adapt and how we handle these situations.
Hren
I wanted to touch upon something I saw a few weeks ago, but I thought it was important to bring up, because we've never talked about it, destination, Wabash Avenue Project. What is it, and how was the public turnout at that last meeting?
Sakbun
So the public turnout was great. We had a number of passionate individuals and businesses, but let me quickly talk about the project, Joe. What we're looking at redoing is from Third Street to about 13th Street on Wabash. And I'm not talking about paving and sidewalk updates. I'm talking about a curb-to-curb remodel. I'm, I'm talking about addressing the guts underneath the street, some of those sewage pipes that desperately need an update. This is a total project that integrates stormwater, asthetically pleasing, you know, right of ways. Better parking, better opportunities in the right of way for businesses to have outdoor dining and outdoor events. We are going to apply for the raise grant again this year. That's a federal grant to help handle some of the construction. But the good news is, our development in downtown continues to grow. And as that development comes in, we should have some financial opportunities in the future in our TIF District, that's Tax Incremental Financing district, to take on a large project like this. So we're integrating a lot of civil engineering into this project. We are going to start talking about potential, potentially looking at a pedestrian bridge over or under Third Street, commonly referred to as US 40, which is an INDOT road, but you've got a University, apartments on the other side, you've got a courthouse on the other side. And you know, part of creating that quality of life is a strong, walkable city, which also addresses public health. So we're integrating so many factors into this project, and Mayor _______ did start, you know, the conversation around this, and this is a project we picked up and said, Hey, let's find a way to get this done. Let's find a way to finish this. This is just good government creating that opportunity for businesses downtown, not just to grow, but to really flourish. It will, of course, help, you know, continue that downtown push with the convention center, new hotels, new apartments being built, and hopefully make it more marketable for businesses to come in terms of commercial, retail and hopefully even drinking and dining.
Hren
So are you just in the process right now, just kind of gathering information? And then is the next step, kind of putting it down on into a plan, I guess?
Sakbun
The next step is design, which is, yes, a synonym for that being planned. And then the step after that is construction. So this is one of those projects that it's currently 2025 right? This is like a 2027, 2028-style construction project, but one that, you know, I've spoken with the staff, very passionate about. The businesses are very passionate about it. The community is very passionate about it. I mean, this is really going to transform our downtown to meet the public right of way the street aspect, to meet some of the quality private sector investments that we've been seeing. Indiana State, of course, has been very good at communicating what they think of the project, what they like about the project, and I really appreciate them. They are a strong downtown partner.
Hren
I see you have an update on the Indiana American Water Project with the TerreTown Connect. Can you give us an update on that?
Sakbun
Yeah, so that, I'll be up front Joe, that that's a mildly successful project, right? There was about 42 homes that are eligible based off the water mains in the area and the water mains coming in. We hope to get those 42 homes connected. If they choose not to do it, again, that's on them. A number of homes, a number of blocks. We didn't hit that percentage. We needed to put a new water main in the ground. But as frustrated as I might seem about this project, I'm ecstatic. Why? Because we gave this opportunity to the citizens of Terre Haute to choose to participate in this problem. We said from day one, we need the majority of Hoosiers on these blocks to say yes, if we're going to do this. We did not get a majority on a lot of those blocks. The blocks that we did, we are going to participate in this project. So mildly successful project. Even better news, Joe, the money that we appropriated for that TerreTown project, we are not going to hit that full amount, so the remaining dollars will be repurposed for a Deming Park pool renovation that we hope to do in 2026. This is going to bring a water slide, some more water features to our current pool, which sits in Deming Park. Is it that massive destination water park? No, it is not, but it is a step in the right direction for providing quality of life improvements to the people of Terre Haute, Indiana. So when you view it from that perspective, I think it truly is a win-win scenario.
Hren
Also, I wanted to follow up on something we talked about a few months ago, too. That was that DORA, that Designated Outdoor- Is it recreational area?
Sakbun
Refreshment Area.
Hren
-Refreshment Area, right. And I know Terre Haute, I'm sorry, Columbus just finished theirs, is they got it approved by the state. They're looking to actually have it, well, I guess, in effect now, of course, once the weather gets much better. Is Terre Haute in the same boat?
Sakbun
The City Council has approved it. We're getting our paperwork ready to go, to get sent to the state. We're getting our little street art design with the forms and designating what's the DORA, what's not the DORA. And of course, we stay in contact with our downtown ___ Association, and they stay in contact with the businesses, saying, Hey, who wants to opt in? I do think you know a change like this, there will, of course, be challenges when you look at public safety, right? You do not want to promote public intoxication, but what you do want to promote is an opportunity for those of age to have a drink in an outdoor area and not create so much bureaucratic red tape to do that, and I think that we'll accomplish that. We hope you know, by the end of this winter, this spring, to be able to do a couple of events where folks can take part in the Designated Outdoor Refreshment Area.
Hren
And just kind of briefly, what area are you looking at having that designation set at?
Sakbun
Think, kind of along Wabash, really, that, Fourth Street-ish area, all the way towards about any 10th Street is what we had. And then we encompass some of the breweries going east to west as well, sorry, north to south as well. So we've got a draft map that we're about ready to solidify, trying to encompass everyone.
Hren
Alright, well, the General Assembly is underway, of course. Governor Braun inaugurated today. Lot of funding options on the table. Budget heads, lawmakers looking at maybe boosting transportation infrastructure funding for Medicaid, but it looks like carving the budget might be a little tighter this time than it was two years ago. What are you looking at as Mayor of Terre Haute that you're hoping that the Indiana legislature will accomplish this year?
Sakbun
You know, first and foremost, I always try to remind folks, 99 times out of 100 that first bill that you see on day one is going to get adjusted and altered and changed and compromised, will happen throughout the legislative process. But number two, you know, I do take a look at conversations around property tax. Compared to states around us, our property tax rates are lower, and that's a true fact. But I think anytime you have a conversation around taxes, people say, Oh, we want lower. We want lower. We want lower. And there's a delicate spot in that, right? These fund our educators, these fund law enforcement. They fund our street improvements. And a lot of folks say, Man, our streets, they should be better. They could be better. Yeah, you're right, folks, but that costs money, so you gotta find that delicate balance where you're not over taxing, but you are able to accomplish the core services of the public, like an an ambulance arriving to your door when you call 911, or a uniformed police officer in the event that you need that. So that's definitely a conversation that I'll stay engaged in with our legislators. And I do really appreciate both, both parties for being very open to that conversation so far, and I look forward to continued discussions. We are kind of at that point, politically, where there's going to be some, you know, politicized bills here and there. I really just stay away from those and say, hey, look, you know, that's got a clear committee before it's heard on the House floor. And I just want to focus on what's going to make Terre Haute a better, brighter, safer and smarter community. You know, for me in particular, one area that I don't think enough people are talking about is workforce development in the Hoosier State. Indiana Department of Workforce Development, the agency here that does that for the state is work one. They've got a new executive director, Greg Lee, who's done phenomenal increasing the JAG program, increasing opportunities there. And, look, when we market ourselves to businesses, to these advanced manufacturing companies, or companies of all size and scale. Here's our argument. We're building homes at an incredibly fast rate. We're investing in our park, streets and law enforcement, and we have a workforce that can be upskilled if needed through programs at Ivy Tech, Indiana State, Rose Hulman and St. Mary's, and, of course, the school corporation. And we will find a way to address your labor shortages right here in west-central Indiana. So when I hear, you know, the talks around budget cuts, I always say, Hey, are we fighting today's problems and also setting the groundwork for a strong Hoosier State in the future? And that's a delicate conversation, but you know, I appreciate the state team for really communicating and having good conversations around the issue. We gotta wait 'till the votes are counted to see how it goes. But I'm cautiously optimistic that we can find a, you know, bipartisan solution that works for all Hoosiers, regardless of their age, ethnicity, what political party they vote for. I care about the issues that matter to all Hoosiers in advancing the state, and those are the bills I usually follow.
Hren
There was one story we had, that Republican legislators kind of sending a message to local leaders about what they should do before coming to the state house with requests. And that was any partnership with the state and local, it has to work in both directions. Do you, do you agree with that?
Sakbun
You know, I do agree to that to an extent, right? There's a difference between equality versus equity, right? I get that we don't have the tax base of a Carmel, a Noblesville, a Fishers, but I do say, hey, look, you know, 70% of our legislators represent about 30% of the Hoosier population, right? So it might not be as transactional. And guess what? You know, some of these communities aren't putting as much into the state base as a Marion County and an Indianapolis. So how do you find ways to get the tax dollars to see growth across the entire Hoosier state? You know, one program that I've always been frustrated with is the state's Ready program, and how they, you know, push those dollars out there. I do think that I'd love to see a program similarly structured to Ready, but provides opportunities for public school corporations to get some of those building improvements outside of a referendum model. I love to find ways for different dollars at the county level to be used for our school corporation instead of strictly the property tax bucket that goes to a school corporation. So I'm always interested in public education and having conversations around that. I know 'skin in the game' is a new term that we're all using over and over and over again, but the skin down here in Terre Haute, as well as some of the other communities that you have on your show are completely different than our larger cities. And it's very important to note that. At the end of the day, you know, we've got to chase an equitable model that helps all communities, all 92 counties in the Hoosier State, instead of just a handful. And that's always going to be a challenge, right? Anytime you're in government policy, it is a challenge, right? But at the end of the day, are we creating an ecosystem that promotes for pro-business, pro-public education, and pro-growth to help Hoosiers advance in today's modern economy?
Hren
I've heard you talk a few times during the show about parks. I assume that's still a big priority in 2025?
Sakbun
That is. And you know, you stay tuned, because by the end of this month, I guarantee I got a big announcement for you to show that, yes, we've got ____ and we've got _______ going, but we are not going to stop at that momentum. We're investing some of our gaming revenue to purchase new playground equipment across the city of Terre Haute. The Mayor's Youth Council is tackling ______, which is a neighborhood park in our community, and a number of groups have offered to pitch in as well, and we will go to the casino foundation for an additional grant. Why? Well, when you look at public health rankings and the fact that kids are outside less than ever before in the history of the United States of America, I want to give them an opportunity to get back outside and play pickup basketball with their friends, hang out on the swing set, and provide a safe environment for families to take kids.
Hren
What else, I assume housing? I think we know that, but whatever 2025 things are you ready just to hit the ground with?
Sakbun
So housing was definitely a top priority in 2024. Going into 2025, it will maintain a top priority. Workforce development and getting folks employed, filling the jobs that we have open in our community is a top priority. And public safety. We've got a number of union contracts this year, so we hope to find a common sense solution to ensure our city employees are paid a fair rate and we can keep those departments operating at the rates that they need to operate at. So a lot of ongoing priorities to kind of weave in and out through state conversations and local conversations. But you know, I always kind of end that questions like that, Joe, with, look, my priority is to do what's right for the people of Terre Haute, Indiana, and well, sometimes it might not be popular down the line, it should pay off. You know, I work for all the folks here the city of Terre Haute, regardless if they voted or didn't vote, regardless of their political party. And I hope with common-sense government that helps make the city a better place to live, to raise a family, for companies to want to come here. We can continue to grow right here in Terre Haute, Indiana.
Hren
Any city council, ordinances, things like that coming up?
Sakbun
Yeah, we took a stab at our animal ordinance, and we made some updates, but we got to make some more, and it's been great having conversations with the City Council, as well as a number of animal rights activists, and trying to find the right answer there. So we hope to improve that. We had a ton of ordinance updates last year as well, and of course, we're tackling the conversation around vape shops. Look, I get there's a free market. I do. But I also get frustrated seeing multiple vape shops open within two blocks of one another, and so I propose an ordinance that says, Guess what, if you're a brand new vape shop, you can't open within a mile of another vape shop. Plus we added some state and federal regulations that have been added for years and need to be applied right here in the state, in the city, Terre Haute. So it's just really taking a look at some of those ordinances and diving into them. Zoning. Zoning is always a challenge. Our zoning code is archaic and absolutely needs updated, but an overhaul like that does take time. So we're working on a number of ordinances, and look forward to see what 2025 has to offer. That's kind of the meat and potatoes of government that folks might not notice when they walk outside, but they'll notice down the line.
Hren
Brandon, thank you so much. Happy New Year and see you in February.
Sakbun
I'll see you in February. Thanks, Joe,
Hren
Thank you.
