Joe Hren
Hello, and welcome to ask the mayor on WFIU, I'm Joe Hren. It's the second week of the month. This week, we're with Terre Haute Mayor Brandon Sakbun, hello, welcome. How's Terre Haute today?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
Uh, well, you know, Joe, the sun's always shining in Terre-dise, as I like to say. But no, joking aside, it's the month of May, very important month for the state of Indiana, of course, the racetrack and the city of Indianapolis, and we've really turned the corner right? Well, we've got that winter-spring transition about wrapped up. Lot of construction going on, sidewalk improvements, streets being repaved, demolition occurring in construction, right? We are building better neighborhoods one block at a time here in the city.
Joe Hren
I see, was it graduation week? Was that last weekend, university colleges?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
We love that. I actually just wrote a flashpoint editorial in the tribune star talking about, you know, the need for, really, the Hoosier State, cities and regions across the Hoosier state, to embrace innovation, technology, and start coming up with clear plans and clear initiatives to retain some of the many college graduates across the state of Indiana. Recent studies have shown that the state's really good at bringing people into our state for college, but we do a poor job at retaining them. And of course, workforce development, we need to improve there, which the city currently is with adult education programs like the Goodwill Excel Center and partnerships with our school corporation. So I think that's a model that should be applied across the state of Indiana as we seek to retain the best and brightest young minds here in the state.
Joe Hren
But, well I guess you mentioned a little bit there. But what does the state need to do to keep to reduce that, the brain drain? That term we use about educating students and then sending them to other places?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
You know, I never really like to tell the state what to do, but I like to show them some of the things that we do locally, right? Of course, we have an economic development team that thrives with the conversation around advanced manufacturing. Something we also do here locally is we work with some of those Main Street style businesses, right? Some of the banking industry, the financial industry, the insurance industry. We say, hey, what do you need to expand? Three to five jobs paying $110,000 a year does have a positive net effect on communities like the city of Terre Haute. Additionally, a lot of the companies we bring in, we meet with the higher level staff, we meet with the plant managers, and say, hey, how do you bring in more engineers, more researchers. And of course, it's investing in projects like Rose-Hulman Innovation Ventures Grove, if you look out east, off Poplar and 46 in the city of Terre Haute, $100 million project is occurring. That is bringing medical technology innovation in a surgery center, combined with higher education to help research ground-breaking procedures and technologies as it pertains to specialty medicine, life, orthopedic surgery. That is a clear cut example of how we can balance utilizing our higher education centers, utilizing our programs through Ivy Tech that focus strongly on employment, and bringing in a field like medical and medical technology to really grow a community.
Joe Hren
And then can I tie that in with, is it See You In Terre Haute Community Plan? Does that all kind of work together?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
Now we're cooking with Crisco, Joe, and I'm fired up. Yes, the See You In Terre Haute Community Plan is, you know, think of a coaching perspective here. It's a playbook. How do you run an offense and chase projects like that? How do you run a defense and focus on talent retention and keeping families here, right? In our defensive retention category, there's conversations about how we know we need to improve the schools. So let's go out there and do it. Let's find a way to maybe use different funding outside of a property tax referendum, because we understand the burden on taxpayers. And we do that through partnerships and conversations with the city, county, business leaders, individuals, teachers and the school corporation. It talks about how we need to reinvigorate our streetscapes, our sidewalks, our right of ways, balancing green space development and also building better neighborhoods. I love saying it one block at a time. That's blight elimination, that's home rehabilitation, that's vocational training, and, of course, one of my favorite programs, free public transportation. We're moving families to grocery stores, employees to employers. Folks can now get to their medical doctor's appointments on times. These are all great programs that are in our playbook, because this city, in this region, is going to truthfully advance itself, regardless of what's going on in D.C. or in the City of Indianapolis during session, we have to rise above the fray.
Joe Hren
You know, I know you've been busy at the statehouse standing up for Indiana cities and towns during this year's legislative session. We talked with Columbus Mayor Mary Ferdon last week. She said, right now she's just trying to figure out this, the new tax law. Where is Terre Haute right now with the new tax law?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
Look, we've run an initial three year analysis and definitely see, you know, it's really going to hamper growth and development from that perspective, which focuses a further emphasis on grant-based funding and public private partnerships with the private sector, which I love doing anyways. What I think is really frustrating is this bill at the end of the day is not providing a ton of relief for homeowners. Businesses through the business personal property tax, floor, depreciation, floor, going away. Businesses are going to get a very large handout in the everyday Hoosier who is fighting, they're fighting through inflation. They're fighting through high cost, high rates, high loan rates. I mean, they're the ones who need the help, right? You know, I look at our state, I look at the median wages in our state, and I look at the people of Terre Haute and say, man, we just created a tax bill that was, awkwardly, supposed to help them, but helps their employers more than it helps them. And we're already such a pro-, business-friendly state. And I, I wish they would have re looked at that, but that's all bridge under the water. There are some frustrating components in this bill, Joe. One of my biggest frustrations is the state now wants local governments to vote to certify their income tax. And as soon as you're able to do that, is the Fall of 2027, right before elections. Which, you know, me being a mayor, I personally think, I mean, you know what unit of government is forcing someone to take a vote like that, where you have to spend so much time on communication, so much time on financial analysis, literally weeks before an election. And it does feel a little bit politically motivated, I'll be honest, and I hope our legislators really take the time to look at that and understand that a little bit more. At the end of the day, taxes are a hard conversation, Joe. And I'm pro police, I'm pro fire, I'm pro public education, I'm pro clean streets. And because of that, I have to be pro taxation to a certain extent. What that level is, is always an ongoing conversation. Do I think they missed the mark a little bit on this? Personally, I do, but professionally, I'm just going to roll up my sleeves and get right back to work, giving all my energy and enthusiasm to the city of Terre Haute.
Joe Hren
You know, Mayor Ferdon made a good point too, how this will really impact small towns that can't grow, they don't have that growing tax base, which means no new revenue. So, but how can, but this is also affecting larger cities too.
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
It is because, you know, growth can be costly, right? It requires infrastructure, it requires public safety, it requires investments into schools and Joe, honestly, sometimes it breaks my heart driving around the Hoosier state to some of our mayor's meetings or or even up to the statehouse. Driving through our rural, small towns across the state, it just people there feel forgotten. They feel left behind and and I empathize with them, because here they are just trying to find relief for, for farmers, just trying to focus on blight remediation and have some small quality-of-life projects to keep their constituents in these smaller communities. And sometimes I get frustrated, because the conversations about annexing Illinois, and, and I understand that conversation. I do. I just think, you know, we gotta help the people here. We gotta help the school districts that don't have a ton of charter schools, that aren't in the donut counties. And we've got to think in terms of statewide impact. Which includes rural Indiana, which includes Columbus, Elkhart, South Bend, Muncie, Evansville, and I've really stressed the state leaders to say, hey, let's take a regional approach. Let's look at how we're doing this. And I am actually happy about Governor Braun, one of his recent executive orders, directing a study on how we need to realign regions. That right there is showing some vision, man. And I'm proud that he's doing that, and happy that he's taking that step forward. Of course, you know him, and I don't agree on everything. I don't agree with my wife on everything, so I get that. But I do want to give a positive compliment there, because I think we need to relook at how we're talking about economic development, talking about cities and towns here in the Hoosier state and so definitely some bad, definitely some good. You got to mix it all together to keep your city moving forward.
Joe Hren
What, what did you learn going to the Statehouse to speak on these matters. You know, now, year number two as mayor. Do Indiana cities and towns have a voice in the legislature?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
You know, I think that voice needs to be further amplified. Definitely. I look at some of the voting history with some individuals, and I, I question it, because it's like, well, that's going to hurt your district more than anything else. But that is on us. It's on mayors, city councils, county commissioners, county councils, to do a better job having conversations with our statewide elected officials. And to be honest, I did really enjoy working with a number of them. Showing them financial impacts, showing them fiscal impacts, and so that way they understand their decision, and they understand their vote. And I get it, I know that they're not all going to vote the certain way that I'd like them to. And is it frustrating at times that our state struggles with tenant protections and out of town landlords buying up and, frankly, an insane amount of property as we battle with law enforcement, blight elimination? Yeah, it can be frustrating. Because it's like, I wish you could see from our perspective, but it's something we're always working on. How loud is that voice need to be? How quiet does that voice need to be? I don't know, Joe. I don't know the answer to that question, but what I do know is I have been well received by a number of those legislators from across the aisle, because we bring a data driven discussion to them. We say, hey, look, here's the facts. Here's how we're interpreting this. Can we get some further explanations, or can we hear from your perspective as well? And you know, I never go to the statehouse in an argumentative way. I go on a discussion way. And I tell them all the time, you look, you can vote to do something that is going to hurt the city of Terre Haute, and I have to find a way to get around it and work with you all, because it's the chain of command, right? Federal, state and local government and all those cuts, all those changes, roll downhill. Mayors have nowhere to hide, right? We see our constituents every day in the grocery store, going out to eat or, you know, even at church, right? So it definitely feels like at times, when you're navigating cuts and uncertainty, you're kind of at the brunt end of it. We've accepted that. That's why we want to be in this role, and that's why I have no, no desire to go join the statehouse, because it's more theoretical and policy focused there, whereas here we just gotta get the job done.
Joe Hren
Want to get your take on what we're seeing with ICE going on in Terre Haute and Bloomington. Of course, federal immigration enforcement, we understand that falls outside of the city's legal authority, but we've had Bloomington Mayor Kerry Thomson offering organizations legal service providers in the community with expertise in immigration law. So it makes me wonder if community members are coming to the mayor, to the city, asking for any help or advice on this situation.
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
You know, we've had a number of individuals stop by. They are in the immigration process, getting their paperwork, turning in their documents, which a lot of people will say, oh, you know, just get on the path to citizenship. And you know, my family has experienced just how challenging that can be, even when you're playing by all the rules set forth by the federal government. And I certainly hope Congress, at some point, reviews that system. I mean, I was a fan of the bipartisan immigration bill that was flirted with last year. I hope Senator [James] Lankford continues those endeavors even this year, moving forward, but from the city's perspective. Again, my professional role, not my personal thoughts and opinions, all we could do is say, hey, look, there's some attorneys in Indianapolis that focus on this. We don't have any local attorneys, to my knowledge, that strictly focus on this field. If you would like to leave your case number that we can send to our federal delegation for assistance from them, we can do that as well. You really have to understand what's your legal authority, what's not your legal authority. And to be very transparent, Joe, we did have a violent crime incident with one individual who did not have the required paperwork to be here. We contacted state and federal authorities, just as we have always done. There was literally zero change from buy in to Trump's, you know, policies of how we're supposed to communicate, and we continue to communicate and follow the law. And that situation has, of course, been dealt with. So it is very political, polarizing conversation. But being the son of immigrants, I value that entire conversation, because we should find ways to bring in other nations' best and brightest. We should find ways to bring in individuals who want to be hardworking members of the Hoosier state. And of course, there's a handful of bad apples, and we should have systems and policies in place to address that at the state and federal level. And we've got to view this through a pragmatic policy perspective. Sometimes there are knee-jerk changes we can, you know, we definitely feel the brunt of, but I get that those are the decisions made elsewhere.
Joe Hren
I know we just have a couple minutes left, but I really did want to get to the riverscape announcement. I know we had a member of our media there at your big announcement. Lot of people showed up to want to know what the development plan is for the community. Can you give us a little bit of a feedback on how that went?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
Yeah, I encourage you to put a link to that plan in this story, in this article, so folks can check it out themselves. Look, we break it down into districts. We've got to focus on pedestrian safety and a focus on public private partnerships. The city's already kicking this off thanks to the Lilly Found-, the Wabash Valley Community Foundation and their support with the renovated YMCA center. And, of course, our parks, we're seeing investments there. And you know, when we put our best foot forward, we've noticed that the private sector does, too. We we're meeting with a number of prospective developers and current landowners, really envisioning what the next step could be, where we could go from here. You gotta have a plan. You gotta have a vision, right? You gotta have something that individuals and business owners can buy into, and now that we have that, we'll work with them. I tell everyone, look, I'm thinking in terms of 10 years, 20 years, right? We're not going to rush to failure. At times. People will want to see progress right away, but you gotta roll with the punches. What financing options are available? What grant options are available? How much percentage of work needs to be private versus public? And a lot of it is private, so just getting those private sector partners to the table, encouraging them on certain deals that, a lot of it is kind of facilitating the offense. The riverfront district is a sub component of the See You In Terre Haute plan. I encourage you to put that link in your article as well, so all of your viewers, whether they live in Terre Haute or not, can see that this community has vision. This community is focused on growth. This community is focused on talent, attraction and retention, and it does take an administration and government officials focus on progress and not politics.
Joe Hren
And many communities can feel your pain. Think about Columbus. They're trying to develop their riverfront, and have a lot of hoops to jump through. It took Bloomington years to do Switchyard Park and the B-Line Trail. Both of those are done now. It just, it takes the initiative and time, and like you said, you got to find the funding, too.
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
Yeah, absolutely, and, you know, unfortunately, the READI program. It's looking like that might not be a program any longer, so utilizing current funding for that. And really just preaching a vision. Saying, hey, look, you know when we have opportunities through large grant foundations or through, hopefully in future years, other state funding streams, this is our return on investment. Look at the Vigo County Homes For The Future. I mean, they're leveraging $10 million, and in return about over $100 million of private sector investments. That's a 10 to one ratio. If we were doing that on Wall Street, we would have beat the tariff announcement, made a ton, and made even more when the tariffs were slowly repealed. So those are numbers that I really like to tout, because our focus is, how can we balance public private partnerships that yield the highest ROI.
Joe Hren
And I'm not sure if you heard or were there, there was a town hall meeting May 1 about the Federal Trade Commission urging that the Indiana Department of Health to deny the Union Hospital, Terre Haute Regional Hospital merger. We talked about this last summer. Were you there? Can you fill us in on how that went and where that's headed?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
I was there. Absolutely. And I'll offer my professional perspective. And I said this during that meeting, 90% of this entire timeline, I was vehemently against this merger. It was not until HCA made the very public statement and delivered data, saying, look, we're going to close it all down, even if Union, if Union does not buy it. So now I'm stuck in a position, where do you support a merger that keeps hundreds of jobs, high-paying jobs in the community? And really, it's it's an argument, right? It's an argument between the reality of the situation, and then the ideology of whether or not you're willing to accept the concept of a very, very well-regulated monopolization. And they signed, you know, they didn't sign the COVID at the state level, but locally here, they gave 45 guarantees on how they can manage this. They've offered to make a multi-million dollar investment into regional hospital. They being union. They've had conversations with HCA leadership throughout this. And you know, a lot of statewide officials are now involved. And I just say, hey, look, come down and hear their story, right? I agree, from an overall economic perspective, is this the outcome that a city should want? No, it's not. But we're dealing with the facts and the reality of the situation, which ultimately pushed me to reversing my support, which was not to merge- two now, saying, hey, we have to merge this as the available option on the table. And I do want to add HCA is like the most for-profit, you know, I always joke they're like the evil empire healthcare, right? You know, think Emperor Palpatine and expansion, and we're a community that's 80% Medicare, Medicaid. So Joe, at this, you have the most profitable Hospital Corporation struggling to in a profit the city of Terre Haute, then it probably does need to be owned by a non for profit hospital with a focus in Medicare and Medicaid and offering services that address those populations. You like that Star Wars reference?
Joe Hren
Yeah, love it, love it. I, you know, I feel bad we're out of time, but I have to say, because we reported on this before, the Mayor's Youth Council Coy Park fundraiser surpassed your goal. So good news there, right?
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
Good news, I wish, I wish we did this entire thing last year, but with the change in construction costs and unfortunately, with the negative effects of certain tariffs, the cost of that project went up. So we're a little bit short, and we will work with the City Council to hopefully get some gaming revenue to close that project out. I will say those young students have raised over $100,000, so here the city has an opportunity to utilize some of it, it's parks equipment fund and gaming revenue to close out a brand new park, really, at a bargain rate because of all our private sponsors, and it's looking very good. So ADA focus, kids of all ages, all abilities, are going to be able to play on something nice and new, which they deserve.
Joe Hren
Yeah, and May 4 wasn't that long ago. So your Star Wars reference fits perfect. Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. Great conversation, and hope to see you next month.
Mayor Brandon Sakbun
Of course, and of course, go Pacers.
Joe Hren
All right, thank you.
